The Penguin U.G. Krishnamurti Reader

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UG Krishnamurthi ( Thymus - Zinc - thyme , thyme oil ) Anti-guru, U.G. Krishnamurti's (1918-2007), dead at 89. Born: 9 July 1918, Machilipatnam, India Died: 22 March 2007 (age 88 years), Vallecrosia, Italy U.G. Krishnamurti, Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti was a philosopher who questioned the state of spiritual liberation. Having pursued a religious path in his youth and eventually rejecting it, U.G. claimed to have experienced a devastating biological transformation on his 49th birthday, an event he refers to as "the calamity". Born: 9 July 1918, Machilipatnam, India Died: 22 March 2007 (age 88 years), Vallecrosia, Italy Children: Vasant Kumar Spouse: Kusuma Kumari (m. 1943–1961) Education: University of Madras (Bachelor's Degree) Notable ideas: The natural state (see Post-calamity) Here is a link to an U.G. Krishnamurti's obituary from someone that seems to have known him. Some quotes by U.G. Krishnamurti : UG Krishnamurti did not show the slightest signs of worry or fear about death or concern for his body even at the end of his life. He did not leave any specific instructions as to how to dispose of his dead body. ‘You can throw it on the garbage heap, as far as I am concerned,’ he often would say. And let this be told: when UG Krishnamurti rejected the notion of soul or atman and declared that our search for permanence was the cause of our suffering, he sounded like the Buddha; when he blasted all spiritual discourses as ‘poppycock’ and thrashed the spiritual masters as ‘misguided fools’, we thought of the fiery and abusive words of the great 9th century mystic of China, Rinzai Gigen, who declared, ‘I have no dharma to give… There is no Buddha, no Dharma, no training and no realization…’ When he spoke of ‘affection’ as ‘thuds’ felt in the spot where the thymus gland is located, we related it to Sri Ramana’s declaration that the ‘true heart’ is located on the right side of the chest. Likewise we sometimes connected his radical statements to certain expressions or declarations in the Avadhuta Gita, Ashtavakra Gita, the Upanishads and Zen Koans, or compared them with the teachings of J. Krishnamurti, Nisargadatta Maharaj and even the post-modern ‘deconstructionists’. We could go on thus, making such connections and comparisons, but that did not help us to get a handle on the mystery that was UG! "The real problem is the solution. Your problems continue because of the false solutions you have invented. If the answers are not there, the questions cannot be there. They are interdependent; your problems and solutions go together. Because you want to use certain answers to end your problems, those problems continue. The numerous solutions offered by all these holy people, the psychologists, the politicians, are not really solutions at all. That is obvious. They can only exhort you to try harder, practice more meditations, cultivate humility, stand on your head, and more and more of the same. That is all they can do. If you brushed aside your hope, fear, and naiveté‚ and treated these fellows like businessmen, you would see that they do not deliver the goods, and never will. But you go on and on buying these bogus wares offered up by the experts. -- UG Krishnamurti" ---------- - Obituary of U.G. Krishnamurti (1918-2007) -- Remembering U.G. Krishnamurti ( Obituary ) U.G. Krishnamurti, lovingly called UG by his friends and admirers all over the world, is no more. The end came on March 22, 2007 at 2.30 pm in an apartment built for him by his friends Lucia, Anita and Giovanni in their villa in Vallecrosia, Italy. As per UG’s advice, with no rituals or funeral rites, the cremation was carried out the next day at 2.45 pm, in Vallecrosia, Italy. He was eighty-nine years old. UG is survived by his erstwhile family, comprising his two daughters, Usha and Bharati, and their respective families and his son, Kumar and his family. But his actual family is much larger than that, extending over the entire globe and consisting of numerous ‘friends’ to whom he has been closer than their own families and indeed their own selves. Seven weeks before, UG had a fall and injured himself. This was the second such occurrence in two years. He did not want such an incident to occur once again which would make him further dependent on his friends for his daily maintenance. So he refused medical or other external intervention. He decided to let his body take its own natural course. He was confined to bed and his consumption of food and water became infrequent and then ceased altogether. ‘It’s time to go,’ he declared, joined his palms in namaste, thanked his friends and advised them to return to their places. Only his longtime friends, the filmmaker, Mahesh Bhatt, Larry and Susan Morris, and few other friends stayed back to guard his body and do whatever was necessary when the end came. UG did not die of any disease, although he suffered from ‘cardio-spasm’ for many years, which became quite severe in the last days of his life. UG did not show the slightest signs of worry or fear about death or concern for his body even at the end of his life. He did not leave any specific instructions as to how to dispose of his dead body. ‘You can throw it on the garbage heap, as far as I am concerned,’ he often would say. Responding to questions on death, UG said, ‘Life and death cannot be separated. When what you call clinical death takes place, the body breaks itself into its constituent elements and that provides the basis for the continuity of life. In that sense the body is immortal.’ * UG was born on 9 July 1918, in a Telugu-speaking Brahmin family in Masulipatam, a coastal town in the state of Andhra Pradesh. He lost his mother when he was seven days old and was brought up by his maternal grandfather, who was a noted, wealthy lawyer and a prominent member of the Theosophical Society. UG grew up in a peculiar milieu of Theosophy and orthodox Hindu religious beliefs and practices. Even as a boy he was a rebel yet brutally honest with whatever he did. He did his schooling in the town of Gudivada and then his B.A. Honours Course in Philosophy and Psychology at Madras University. But the study of the various philosophical systems and Western psychology made very little impression on him. ‘Where is this mind these chaps have been talking about?’ he once asked his Psychology teacher. It was something extraordinary coming from a student who was hardly twenty years old, particularly when Freud’s ideas were considered to be the last word on human mind. Between 14 and 21 years of age, UG spent seven years off and on with Swami Sivananda in Rishikesh practicing yoga and meditation. He had various mystical visions and experiences there, but he questioned their validity as he thought that he could recognize them only on the basis of his prior knowledge he already had about them. In 1939, when UG was 21 years of age, he went and met Sri Ramana Maharshi and asked him, ‘This thing called moksha, can you give it to me?’ Ramana reply, ‘I can give it, but can you take it?’ struck him like a ‘thunderbolt’ and set him up on a relentless search for truth that ended at the age of 49 with a totally unforeseen result. After leaving the university, UG joined the Theosophical Society as a lecturer and toured the country giving talks on Theosophy. Even after his marriage to Kusuma Kumari in 1943, he continued to work with the Theosophical Society and gave lectures in European countries, until, in 1953, he realized that what he was doing was not something true to his real self and quit the post in disgust. After that, he met J. Krishnamurti, who was by then famous as an unconventional spiritual teacher. For two years, he met him now and again and got into fierce discussions on spiritual matters, but later on, he was to reject JK’s philosophy, calling it a ‘bogus chartered journey.’ During this period, UG also underwent a life-altering, mystical experience, what he sometimes called a ‘death experience’. But he ‘brushed it all aside’ as of no importance and moved on, further probing and testing and questioning every experience until he came into his own. In 1955, UG went to America with his family to get medical treatment for his son’s polio condition. When his resources began to diminish, he took to lecturing for a fee. He gave talks on the major religions and philosophies of the world and soon came to be recognized as a fine teacher from India. But, as it happened before, at the end of the second year, he lost interest in lecturing and then the inevitable happened. His seventeen years of marriage came to an end. His wife returned to India with the children. And UG drifted from one thing to another. After his aimless wanderings in London and Paris, like a dry leaf blown here, there and everywhere, he landed in Geneva and at last found refuge in Valentine de Kerven’s chalet in Saanen. By then incredible experiences had started to happen to him and his body was ‘like rice chaff burning inside’. It was a prelude to his ‘clinical death’ on his forty-ninth birthday (in 1967) and the beginning of the most incredible bodily changes and experiences that would catapult him into a state that is difficult to understand within the framework of our hitherto known mystical or enlightenment traditions. For seven days, seven bewildering physical changes took place and he landed in what he calls the ‘Natural State’. It was a cellular revolution, a full-scale biological mutation. In 1972, UG gave his first public talk at the Indian Institute of World Culture, Bangalore. He never again gave any public talk. But he did not/could not stop people from meeting and talking to him. He responded to their queries and answered their questions in the way only he could. He usually stayed with friends or in small rented apartments, but never stayed in one place for more than six months. He gave no lectures or discourses. He had no organization, no office, no secretary, and no fixed address. Despite his endless repetition that he had ‘no message for mankind,’ ironically yet naturally thousands of people the world-over felt otherwise and flocked to see and listen to his ‘anti-teaching’. The first book, The Mystique of Enlightenment—The unrational ideas of a man called UG, put together by Rodney Arms, appeared in 1982. In 1986, he went public and gave his first TV interview, which was soon to be followed by several TV and radio interviews the world over. And UG made publishing history by not allowing copyright on any of his books saying, ‘My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.’ In the last seven years during his stay in Bangalore, he rarely engaged in serious conversations; rather he started to do something else other than answer tiresome questions, for he found all questions (except in the technical area, which is something else) were variations of basically the same question revolving around the ideas of ‘being’ and ‘becoming’. There used to be long stretches of utter silence. It used to be embarrassing; also a tremendous relief from the burden of knowing. And then UG would start playing his enigmatic little ‘games’, or invite friends to sing, dance, or share jokes. And the room would explode with laughter: funny, silly, dark, and apocalyptic! At last freed from the tyranny of knowledge, beauty, goodness, truth, and God, we would all mock and laugh at everything, mock heroes and lovers, thinkers and politicians, scientists and thieves, kings and sages, including UG and ourselves! Who was this UG? What kind of person was he? He was the most enigmatic person you could ever meet – at once kind and cruel, most loving yet stern, constantly talking about money, seeming to ‘extract’ it from friends, yet most generous in giving; seemingly abusive and punishing, yet showering affection on the same person the next moment; utterly carefree, yet worrying about what might happen to the person in front of him; directing people to act in specific ways, yet instantly accepting of any outcome; demonstrating the most incisive logic, yet making utterly contradictory statements. For a man who complained that we are constantly preoccupied with something other than what is happening at the moment, he endlessly talked about himself and his past. One could never fathom UG’s true intentions behind his statements or actions. His answers to our questions came straight like arrows, unsettling our minds. He was well-known for striking down not only the edifices we have so carefully built in our own minds but the foundations of human thought as a whole. UG was truly enigmatic, subversive and revolutionary, and totally fearless. There was a unique energy with UG: in speech or in stillness it was constant and vibrant, and had a profound effect on those who were around him. And let this be told: when UG rejected the notion of soul or atman and declared that our search for permanence was the cause of our suffering, he sounded like the Buddha; when he blasted all spiritual discourses as ‘poppycock’ and thrashed the spiritual masters as ‘misguided fools’, we thought of the fiery and abusive words of the great 9th century mystic of China, Rinzai Gigen, who declared, ‘I have no dharma to give… There is no Buddha, no Dharma, no training and no realization…’ When he spoke of ‘affection’ as ‘thuds’ felt in the spot where the thymus gland is located, we related it to Sri Ramana’s declaration that the ‘true heart’ is located on the right side of the chest. Likewise we sometimes connected his radical statements to certain expressions or declarations in the Avadhuta Gita, Ashtavakra Gita, the Upanishads and Zen Koans, or compared them with the teachings of J. Krishnamurti, Nisargadatta Maharaj and even the post-modern ‘deconstructionists’. We could go on thus, making such connections and comparisons, but that did not help us to get a handle on the mystery that was UG! That mystery, that enigma, is no more. Once, a couple of years back, when Mahesh Bhatt had asked him, ‘UG, how would you like to be remembered?’ UG had said, ‘After I am dead and gone, nothing of me must remain inside of you or outside of you. I can certainly do a lot to see that no establishment or institution of any kind mushrooms around me whilst I am alive. But how do I stop all you guys from enshrining me in your brains?’ __________________________________________ UG Krishnamurti Says Quotable Quotes I have no teaching. There is nothing to preserve. Teaching implies something that can be used to bring about change. Sorry, there is no teaching here, just disjointed, disconnected sentences. What is there is only your interpretation, nothing else. For this reason there is not now nor will there ever be any kind of copyright for whatever I am saying. I have no claims. There is no teaching of mine, and never shall be one. "Teaching" is not the word for it. A teaching implies a method or a system, a technique or a new way of thinking to be applied in order to bring about a transformation in your way of life. What I am saying is outside the field of teachability; it is simply a description of the way I am functioning. It is just a description of the natural state of man -- this is the way you, stripped of the machinations of thought, are also functioning. My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody. My interest is to point out to you that you can walk, and please throw away all those crutches. If you are really handicapped, I wouldn’t advise you to do any such thing. But you are made to feel by other people that you are handicapped so that they could sell you those crutches. Throw them away and you can walk. That’s all that I can say. ‘If I fall....’ - that is your fear. Put the crutches away, and you are not going to fall. People call me an ‘enlightened man’ -- I detest that term -- they can’t find any other word to describe the way I am functioning. At the same time, I point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all. I say that because all my life I’ve searched and wanted to be an enlightened man, and I discovered that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all, and so the question whether a particular person is enlightened or not doesn’t arise. I don’t give a hoot for a sixth-century-BC Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people. There is no power outside of man. Man has created God out of fear. So the problem is fear and not God. The natural state is not the state of a self-realized God-realized man, it is not a thing to be achieved or attained, it is not a thing to be willed into existence; it is there -- it is the living state. This state is just the functional activity of life. By 'life' I do not mean something abstract; it is the life of the senses, functioning naturally without the interference of thought. Thought is an interloper, which thrusts itself into the affairs of the senses. It has a profit motive: thought directs the activity of the senses to get something out of them, and uses them to give continuity to itself. God is the ultimate pleasure, uninterrupted happiness. No such thing exists. Your wanting something that does not exist is the root of your problem. Transformation, moksha, liberation, and all that stuff are just variations on the same theme: permanent happiness. All your experiences, all your meditations, all your prayer, all that you do, is self-centred. It is strengthening the self, adding momentum, gathering momentum, so it is taking you in the opposite direction. Whatever you do to be free from the self also is a self-centred activity. There is nothing there, only your relative, experiential data, your truth. There is no such thing as objective truth at all. There is nothing which exists outside or independent of our minds. Mind or thought is not yours or mine. It is our common inheritance. There is no such thing as your mind and my mind (it is in that sense mind is a myth). There is only mind, the totality of all that has been known, felt and experienced by man, handed down from generation to generation. We are all thinking and functioning in that thought sphere just as we all share the same atmosphere for breathing. You have been told that you should practice desirelessness. You have practiced desirelessness for thirty or forty years, but still desires are there. So something must be wrong somewhere. Nothing can be wrong with desire; something must be wrong with the one who has told you to practice desirelessness. This (desire) is a reality; that (desirelessness) is false – it is falsifying you. Desire is there. Desire as such can’t be wrong, can’t be false, because it is there. Human nature is basically violent, because thought is violent. Anything that is born out of thought is destructive. You may cover it up with all wonderful and romantic phrases: ‘Love thy neighbour as thyself.’ Don’t forget that in the name of ‘Love thy neighbour as thyself’ millions and millions of people have died, more than in all the recent wars put together. But we now have come to a point where we can realize that violence is not the answer, that it is not the way to solve human problems. So, terror seems to be the only way. I am not talking of terrorists blowing up churches, temples, and all that kind of thing, but the terror that if you try to destroy your neighbour you will possibly destroy yourself. That realization has to come down to the level of the common man. The real problem is the solution. Your problems continue because of the false solutions you have invented. If the answers are not there, the questions cannot be there. They are interdependent; your problems and solutions go together. Because you want to use certain answers to end your problems, those problems continue. The numerous solutions offered by all these holy people, the psychologists, the politicians, are not really solutions at all. That is obvious. They can only exhort you to try harder, practice more meditations, cultivate humility, stand on your head, and more and more of the same. That is all they can do. If you brushed aside your hope, fear, and naiveté‚ and treated these fellows like businessmen, you would see that they do not deliver the goods, and never will. But you go on and on buying these bogus wares offered up by the experts. I can never sit on a platform and talk. It is too artificial. It is a waste of time to sit and discuss things in hypothetical or abstract terms. An angry man does not sit and talk and converse pleasantly about anger; he is too angry. So don’t tell me that you are in crisis, that you are angry. Why talk of anger? You live and die in the hope that someday, somehow, you will no longer be angry. You are burdened with hope, and if this life seems hopeless, you invent the next life. There are no lives to come. My interest is not to knock off what others have said (that is too easy) but to knock off what I am saying. More precisely, I am trying to stop what you are making out of what I am saying. This is why my talking sounds contradictory to others. I am forced by the nature of your listening to always negate the first statement with another statement. Then the second statement is negated by a third and so on. My aim is not some comfy dialectical thesis but the total negation of everything that can be expressed. TELLING IT LIKE IT IS: A messiah is the one who leaves a mess behind him in this world. Religions have promised roses but you end up with only thorns. Going to the pub or the temple is exactly the same; it is quick fix. The body has no independent existence. You are a squatter there. God and sex go together. If God goes sex goes, too. All experiences however extraordinary they may be are in the area of sensuality. Man cannot be anything other than what he is. Whatever he is, he will create a society that mirrors him. Love and hate are not opposite ends of the same spectrum; they are one and the same thing. They are much closer than kissing cousins. Gurus play a social role, so do prostitutes. By using the models of Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna we have destroyed the possibility of nature throwing up unique individuals. It would be more interesting to learn from children, than try to teach them how to behave, how to live and how to function. All I can guarantee you is that as long as you are searching for happiness, you will remain unhappy. You eat not food but ideas. What you wear are not clothes, but labels and names. The plain fact is that if you don’t have a problem, you create one. If you don’t have a problem you don’t feel that you are living. That messy thing called ‘mind’ has created many destructive things. By far the most destructive of them all is God. Atmospheric pollution is most harmless when compared to the spiritual and religious pollution that have plagued the world. Nature is busy creating absolutely unique individuals, where as culture has invented a single mold to which all must conform. It is grotesque. ______________ Ray Peat Forum Thymus, Thoughts, Sex, "Natural state" and UG Krishnamurti Thread starterUG Krishnamurti Start dateNov 10, 2022 1 2 Next Nov 10, 2022 #1 UG Krishnamurti UG Krishnamurti Member JoinedSep 28, 2020 Messages539 Over my 30+ Years I haven't seen and experienced more fascinating human being than UG Krishnamurti. I've researched this guy for 5 years. Read everything, watched everything and after all that I can boldly make this claim. In short, he was a guy who was searching for "Spiritual Enlightenment" all of his life and on his 49 birthday some biological transformation happened. People claimed that he got enlightened but he forcefully rejected that term and said that what happened to him was some kind of biological alignment. He called that state of the body a "Natural state". Body free from the control of thought. He didn't offer any advice on how to "achieve" what he has achieve because he claimed that he was "lucky" and he doesn't know what happened. He often said that what happened has happened not because of his wants and desires but in spite of them. After that he talked about "physical glands" and not "spiritual chakras". In this little part of this lovely forum I'm sharing some of his thoughts, for no reason: Q: What track would that be? UG: It is all chemical. If, as they say, desires are hormones, then the whole ethical code and culture that we have created through centuries to control the behavior of human beings are false. So, desire cannot be false. Anything that is happening within the [human] organism cannot be false. Q: Are you saying that there will always be sexual desire even without thought? UG: There is no sex at all without thought. Thought is memory. These experts make fun of me when I say that the most important of all glands is the thymus gland. When I discussed this subject with some physiologists and doctors they made fun of me. Naturally so, because according to them, the gland is inactive. If it is activated through any external means, it would be an abnormal situation. But, you know, the thymus is the most important gland, and feelings operate there without the element of thought. Q: From the thymus...? UG: Yes, from the thymus. You see, medical technology has ignored that for a very long time. They considered any unusual condition of the gland to be an abnormality and tried to treat it. It is true that when you reach the adolescent age, it becomes inactive, and then your feelings are controlled by your ideas. Q: By culture rather than by natural biology.... UG: ...than by natural biology. Feeling, to me, is like this: if you trip, I don't actually trip along with you; but the whole of my being is involved in that `tripping over'. That is the kind of feeling that I am talking about; all other feelings are emotions and thoughts. The distinction between feeling (not in the sense that I mentioned just now) and thought is not really something .... Q: It is just artificial. UG: It is very artificial. It is cultural. "The heart is more important than the head" and all such nonsense are absolute poppycock. When once this [U.G.'s] kind of disturbance takes place in the hormonal balance of the human body through this catastrophe, through this calamity, through whatever you want to call it, not only is the thymus activated but also all other glands such as the pineal and the pituitary are activated. People ask me, "Why don't you submit yourself to medical testing to validate all these claims?" I tell them that I am not selling these claims. What I have against medical technology is that you want to understand the functioning of these things with a motive. When once you have some idea of how these glands function, how the activation of these things will help mankind, you are not going to use it for the benefit of mankind. Q: And that is the reason why you are not interested in.... UG: ...not interested in studying all that. If you don't accept what I am saying, it is just fine with me. If some top physician wants to reject what I say, that fellow will say that I am talking rubbish. But now volumes have been written in America on the subject of the thymus gland. I am not claiming any special knowledge of these things. What I am trying to say is that the feelings felt at the thymus are quite different from the feelings induced by thoughts. ALSO: UG: "When I talk of 'feeling', I do not mean the same thing that you do. Actually, feeling is a physical response, a thud in the thymus. The thymus, one of the endocrine glands, is located under the breast bone. The doctors tell us that it is active through childhood until puberty and then becomes dormant. When you come into your natural state, this gland is re-activated. Sensations are felt there; you don't translate them as 'good' or 'bad'; they are just a thud. If there is a movement outside of you -- a clock pendulum swinging, or a bird flying across your field of vision -- that movement is also felt in the thymus. The whole of your being is that movement or vibrates with that sound; there is no separation. This does not mean that you identify yourself with that bird or whatever -- "I am that flying bird." There is no 'you' there, nor is there any object. What causes that sensation, you don't know. You do not even know that it is a sensation. 'Affection' (this is not my interpretation of the word) means that you are affected by everything, not that some emotion flows from you towards something. The natural state is a state of great sensitivity -- but this is a physical sensitivity of the senses, not some kind of emotional compassion or tenderness for others. There is compassion only in the sense that there are no 'others' for me, and so there is no separation" Nov 10, 2022 Thread starter #2 UG Krishnamurti UG Krishnamurti Member JoinedSep 28, 2020 Messages539 I know Ray has claimed that Thymus is extremely important gland on several occasion so maybe someone can chime in and talk about the ways of how to protect and "re-activate" the Thymus gland. I know Ray has said Sugar is extremely important for protecting the Thymus. Some medical studies are claiming Zinc as extremely important. Are there any other thoughts? Nov 10, 2022 #3 foodandtheworld Member JoinedApr 13, 2018 Messages239 I'm a fan of both UG Krishnamurti and Ray Peat. I think both have a philosophy of the body containing an inherent intelligence that goes far beyond culture, and is stifled or distorted by the supposed educated authorities who instead mold it into harmful ways of living. UG Krishnamurti seemed to focus more on the religious/spiritual/cultural distortions, Ray Peat more on the health/scientific/cultural distortions, although he definitely gets into the philosophy side of things in Generative Energy or Mind in Tissue. I don't have the quotes on me but Peat has talked about learning from one's on body's cravings as indications of things gone awry (suggesting nutritional deficiencies, or things wrong in one's own environment) and people having an instinctual ability to know what's wrong with them, in contrast to the misleading approach of modern medical authorities. Quote from Ray Peat: "The culture of adaptation creates a life trajectory, in which what they want is contrary to what life needs. Remembering yourself as the one whose future is always in question, in doubt and open, you know where youthful energy lives, and I think it starts to feel as though gravity is pulling for you, making things roll toward you—that is, things indicate where they need to go, so it isn’t necessary to plan, instead, to keep perceiving the possibilities as they open up better generalities." Ray Peat, Email reply to Karen Mcc, 2015 (#903) "Our brain grows into our culture, and the culture lives in our nervous system. If a person grows up without hearing people speak, he will have grown a special kind of brain, making it difficult to learn to speak. When we ask a question and find an answer, we are changed. Thinking with learning is a developmental process [...] But many people learn at an early age not to question. This changes the nature of subsequent learning and brain development." [...] "In the middle ages, the Divine Right of Kings was derived from certain kinds of theological reasoning. It has been replaced by newer ideologies, based on deductions from beliefs about the nature of mind and matter, words and genes, “Computational Grammar,” or numbers and quantized energy, but behind the ideology is the reality of the authoritarian personality." Academic authoritarians, language, metaphor, animals, and science Ray Peat raypeat.com "In a world run by corporation executives, university presidents (“football is central to the university's mission”), congressmen, bankers, oilmen, and agency bureaucrats, people with the intelligence of an ant (a warm ant) might seem outlandishly intelligent. This is because the benighted self-interest of the self-appointed ruling class recognizes that objective reality is always a threat to their interests. If people, for example, realized that estrogen therapy and serotonin-active drugs and x-rays and nuclear power and atomic bomb tests were beneficial only to those whose wealth and power derive from them, the whole system would lose stability. Feigned stupidity becomes real stupidity. "But apart from ideologically institutionalized stupidity, there are real variations in the ability to learn, to remember and to apply knowledge, and to solve problems. These variations are generally metabolic differences, and so will change according to circumstances that affect metabolism. Everyday social experiences affect metabolism, stimulating and supporting some kinds of brain activity, suppressing and punishing others. All of the activities in the child's environment are educational, in one way or another." Intelligence and metabolism Appropriate stimulation is an essential part of the developmental process. Inappropriate stimulation is a stress that deforms the process of growth. Mediators of stress, such as serotonin, can cause persistent distortions of physiology and behavior. raypeat.com ​ Quote from UG Krishnamurti: "Each individual is unique, unparalleled; there is not another one like you in the whole universe. That is your natural state.' But we ignore that fact and try to put everybody in a common mould and create what we call the greatest common factor. Our education, religion and culture are geared towards producing copies of acceptable models, and, in the process, destroying that unique, living quality in a child, in every human being, which is yearning to blossom and express itself. Otherwise, there would be more human flowers. But, given its nature, society cannot be interested in such human flowers. At best, it can put them on a pedestal, domesticate them and make them a part of its structure." Source: Each individual is unique - Ug Krishnamurti Others from UG: "To be yourself requires extraordinary intelligence. You are blessed with that intelligence; nobody need give it to you; nobody can take it away from you. He who lets that express itself in its own way is a "Natural Man"." "Society or culture or whatever you might want to call it, has created us all solely and wholly for the purpose of maintaining its continuity and status quo.“ — U.G. Krishnamurti Source: Thought is Your Enemy (1990), Chapter II: Throw Away Your Crutches Source: Society or culture or whatever you might want to call it,… "Q: But there is no conditioning of the body. UG: The conditioning of the body is its intelligence. That is the native intelligence of the body. I am not talking about the instinct. The intelligence of the body is necessary for its survival. That intelligence is quite different from the intellect which we have developed. Our intellect is no match for that intelligence. If you don't think, the body can take care of itself in a situation where it finds itself in danger. Whenever the body is faced with danger, it relies upon itself and not your thinking or your intellect. If, on the other hand, you just think, then you are frightened. The fear makes it difficult for you to act. People ask me, "How come you take walks with the cobras?" I have never done it with a tiger or any other wild animal. But I don't think I would be frightened of them either. If there is no fear in you, then you can take walks with them. The fear emits certain odors which the cobra senses. The cobra senses that you are a dangerous thing. Naturally, the cobra has to take the first step. Otherwise, it is one of the most beautiful creatures that nature has created. They are the most lovable creatures. You can take a walk with them and you can talk to them." No Way Out/Chapter 8 - Wikisource, the free online library Last edited: Nov 10, 2022 Nov 11, 2022 Thread starter #4 UG Krishnamurti UG Krishnamurti Member JoinedSep 28, 2020 Messages539 Thanks for chiming in sharing all those quotes. I'm very familiar with these Ray's and UG's statements. I think there are lots of similarities between Ray and UG and that is what drove me closer to Ray after I first heard him talk. Nov 11, 2022 #5 Inaut Inaut Member JoinedNov 29, 2017 Messages3,620 I was always a fan of Krishnamurti. Something about his aura and how he communicated his thoughts. He was unlike many "gurus" of his time. I am also most interested in the thymus and have posted a few things about thymus thumping. Not sure if there's any measurable effects from doing the action but it definitely wakes me up and gets me out of my head. Thyme and thyme oil may also have importance and connection to the thymus, more than just etymologically. Maybe just anecdotal though insideout Nov 11, 2022 #6 golder Member JoinedMay 10, 2018 Messages2,765 UG Krishnamurti said: Thymus is extremely important gland on several occasion so maybe someone can chime in and talk about the ways of how to protect and "re-activate" the Thymus gland. I was thinking this exact same thing the other day when accidentally stumbling on some peptides that were apparently very supportive for the thymus (TA1 and Thymulin). Hopefully some people can chime in with some good general practises for thymus health! Nov 11, 2022 Thread starter #7 UG Krishnamurti UG Krishnamurti Member JoinedSep 28, 2020 Messages539 Inaut said: I was always a fan of Krishnamurti. I just want to make a distinction between UG and Jiddu Krishnamurti. They both have the name Krishnamurti (In india that is their name and not their last name) and Jiddu is way more popular and famous than UG. :) Interestingly UG was a student of Jiddu Krishnamurti and at the end UG left Jiddu and started searching on his own. Inaut said: I am also most interested in the thymus and have posted a few things about thymus thumping. Not sure if there's any measurable effects from doing the action but it definitely wakes me up and gets me out of my head. Thymus thumping. Interesting, thanks for sharing. Inaut said: Thyme and thyme oil may also have importance and connection to the thymus, more than just etymologically. Maybe just anecdotal though I've also seen some anecdotal evidence of Thyme oil and thyme in general being supposedly good for thymus. golder said: I was thinking this exact same thing the other day when accidentally stumbling on some peptides that were apparently very supportive for the thymus (TA1 and Thymulin). Interesting, thanks. "Thymulin is a nonapeptide hormone whose active structure requires Zn" - HAROLD H. SANDSTEAD, WILLIAM AU, in Handbook on the Toxicology of Metals (Third Edition), 2007 Nov 11, 2022 #8 Ben. Ben. Member JoinedOct 6, 2020 Messages1,671 LocationAustria I too heard zinc could be usefull altough the dosages need to be quite high so other minerals/elements would need to be supplemented aswell. I think @Hans mentioned it? Theres also the idea that human growth hormone (HGH) and DHEA could help. Thymus peptides, maybe Thymus organ meat mixed in with ground beef/pork or as supplement could be helpfull aswell. Im just speculating tho. What i recommend or post is not absolute. Take what makes sense or work for you and discard the rest. Nov 11, 2022 #9 Makrosky Makrosky Member JoinedOct 5, 2014 Messages3,939 It might seem a frivolous comment, but it is not. Think about it... Why Krishnamurti always had a sad, melancholic face? Not much bright on his eyes I would say. Not to say his teachings (maybe best called unteachings) don't have value, because they do. I believe face is a reflection of inner soul. Nov 11, 2022 #10 Makrosky Makrosky Member JoinedOct 5, 2014 Messages3,939 Ben. said: I too heard zinc could be usefull altough the dosages need to be quite high so other minerals/elements would need to be supplemented aswell. I think @Hans mentioned it? Theres also the idea that human growth hormone (HGH) and DHEA could help. Thymus peptides, maybe Thymus organ meat mixed in with ground beef/pork or as supplement could be helpfull aswell. Im just speculating tho. AFAIK nobody in thisnforum has ever discussed thymus gland supplementation. It would be very interesting to know its effects. Do they sell it? Nov 11, 2022 Thread starter #11 UG Krishnamurti UG Krishnamurti Member JoinedSep 28, 2020 Messages539 Makrosky said: Why Krishnamurti always had a sad, melancholic face? Not much bright on his eyes I would say. I believe you are thinking of Jiddu Krishnamurti and not UG Krishnamurti :) UG was the energetic, loud, "cynical", anti-authoritarian and white sugar/heavy whipping cream eating guy xd Ben. said: Theres also the idea that human growth hormone (HGH) and DHEA could help. Thymus peptides, maybe Thymus organ meat mixed in with ground beef/pork or as supplement could be helpfull aswell. NIce suggestions. Will look into it. Nov 11, 2022 #12 mm33 Member Forum Supporter JoinedDec 12, 2020 Messages155 Thanks UG for this thread. I read about UG Krishnamurti years ago and it was all probably way over my head back then lol. Thanks for the summations above. The thymus talk is also quite fascinating. Nov 11, 2022 #13 Ben. Ben. Member JoinedOct 6, 2020 Messages1,671 LocationAustria Makrosky said: AFAIK nobody in thisnforum has ever discussed thymus gland supplementation. It would be very interesting to know its effects. Do they sell it? Well i came across it when i learned about Prof. Vladimir Khavinson some russian guy. Apparantly they found peptides to be helpful in the sense of returning both animals and soldiers back to a biological baseline health of their respective organ before some traumatic or hurtfull event happened (stress, malnutrition, severe wounds from war etc.). Atleast i think so, it's been a few years since i read/watched infos on it. Yes it led to it being sold as tablets/pills eventually. The peptides are derived from animals (prolly some cheap mass producing farm i assume). However from that logic atleast consuming these organs should deliver the same thing. It is something organ meat advocates and organ supplement companys advertise with anyhow. Thoose organs usually contain alot of nutrients they themself need so i don't think the whole idea is to far fetched. Peptides on their own however are usually extremely expensive and the amount of fraud in that market is insane so actually getting your hands on a valid source that contains the amount you pay for, if it contains it at all would be most fortunate. Thus organ meat seems to be a sensible approach if one would take it. But don't take my word for it i just read/heard about it so take with a healthy teaspoon's worth grain of salt. What i recommend or post is not absolute. Take what makes sense or work for you and discard the rest. Nov 11, 2022 #14 damngoodcoffee damngoodcoffee Member JoinedMay 21, 2015 Messages758 LocationFinland Haven't watched UG's stuff in years. Thanks for the reminder, interesting character. UG Krishnamurti said: I know Ray has claimed that Thymus is extremely important gland on several occasion so maybe someone can chime in and talk about the ways of how to protect and "re-activate" the Thymus gland. Any other places he talks about it than this? View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHnKOux7QKE Also, it is interesting that the thymus gland is associated with the "8th chakra" and in the bible it is talked about circumcision happening on the 8th day, and about real circumcision being the circumcision of the heart. Nov 11, 2022 #15 Makrosky Makrosky Member JoinedOct 5, 2014 Messages3,939 UG Krishnamurti said: I believe you are thinking of Jiddu Krishnamurti and not UG Krishnamurti :) UG was the energetic, loud, "cynical", anti-authoritarian and white sugar/heavy whipping cream eating guy xd NIce suggestions. Will look into it. Oh, yes, sorry. I thought you meant Jiddu. Is UG a relative of him or what? Nov 11, 2022 #16 Inaut Inaut Member JoinedNov 29, 2017 Messages3,620 Makrosky said: Oh, yes, sorry. I thought you meant Jiddu. Is UG a relative of him or what? me too buddy haha insideout Nov 11, 2022 #17 Makrosky Makrosky Member JoinedOct 5, 2014 Messages3,939 Ben. said: Well i came across it when i learned about Prof. Vladimir Khavinson some russian guy. Apparantly they found peptides to be helpful in the sense of returning both animals and soldiers back to a biological baseline health of their respective organ before some traumatic or hurtfull event happened (stress, malnutrition, severe wounds from war etc.). Atleast i think so, it's been a few years since i read/watched infos on it. Yes it led to it being sold as tablets/pills eventually. The peptides are derived from animals (prolly some cheap mass producing farm i assume). However from that logic atleast consuming these organs should deliver the same thing. It is something organ meat advocates and organ supplement companys advertise with anyhow. Thoose organs usually contain alot of nutrients they themself need so i don't think the whole idea is to far fetched. Peptides on their own however are usually extremely expensive and the amount of fraud in that market is insane so actually getting your hands on a valid source that contains the amount you pay for, if it contains it at all would be most fortunate. Thus organ meat seems to be a sensible approach if one would take it. But don't take my word for it i just read/heard about it so take with a healthy teaspoon's worth grain of salt. No, it makes sense all you said. Super interesting. I just checked and ancestral supplements sell it. They advertise it for immune support. Nov 11, 2022 #18 mm33 Member Forum Supporter JoinedDec 12, 2020 Messages155 For anyone interested here's a link to his books ugkrishnamurti.in Books - U.G.Krishnamurti BOOKS ugkrishnamurti.in ugkrishnamurti.in Nov 11, 2022 Thread starter #19 UG Krishnamurti UG Krishnamurti Member JoinedSep 28, 2020 Messages539 Makrosky said: No, it makes sense all you said. Super interesting. I just checked and ancestral supplements sell it. They advertise it for immune support. Hahaha it's a common mistake until you actually listen to them both hahahha They are not relatives it's just the fact that "Krishnamurti" is a common name in India like for example "John" in the US/England... But UG was the student/friend of Jiddu in his younger days until he left him so that's the only connection between the two... I actually recommend audiobook called "Mystique on enlightenment" - available on youtube - if you find this topic interesting. There he also discusses his "biological transformation/alignment" and talks about his life. All of his books were written by his friends basically interviewing him and than selling the books. The most fascinating and interesting thing that will paint a small piece of picture of what a character UG actually was - is in his statement: „My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.“ :) Nov 11, 2022 #20 Makrosky Makrosky Member JoinedOct 5, 2014 Messages3,939 UG Krishnamurti said: Hahaha it's a common mistake until you actually listen to them both hahahha They are not relatives it's just the fact that "Krishnamurti" is a common name in India like for example "John" in the US/England... But UG was the student/friend of Jiddu in his younger days until he left him so that's the only connection between the two... I actually recommend audiobook called "Mystique on enlightenment" - available on youtube - if you find this topic interesting. There he also discusses his "biological transformation/alignment" and talks about his life. All of his books were written by his friends basically interviewing him and than selling the books. The most fascinating and interesting thing that will paint a small piece of picture of what a character UG actually was - is in his statement: „My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.“ :) LOL! Wonderful quote. I guess he had other economical means to survive? lol Home Forums Lifestyle, Society, Miscellaneous Miscellaneous Studies, Articles, Health Discussion Miscellaneous Health Discussions Thymus, Thoughts, Sex, "Natural state" and UG Krishnamurti Thread starterUG Krishnamurti Start dateNov 10, 2022 Prev 1 2 Nov 11, 2022 Thread starter #21 UG Krishnamurti UG Krishnamurti Member JoinedSep 28, 2020 Messages539 Makrosky said: LOL! Wonderful quote. I guess he had other economical means to survive? lol His friends always gave him money from the book sales and there would always been people in his house bringing some food which he loved (White chocolate, Heavy whipped cream etc). He was actually offered millions and millions from the rich people coming in contact with him - he always said his thanks and rejected them all :) Unlike Jiddu or Osho.. or everybody else for the matter - not judging btw, just stating the facts :) He was unlike anybody I've came across. Nov 13, 2022 #22 David PS David PS Member JoinedJan 5, 2016 Messages13,237 LocationDark side of the moon At the 2 hour 11 minute mark -"estrogen destroys our thymus if it's dominant a progesterone can regenerate the thymus" View: https://youtu.be/74oLBrVddFs?t=5334 Aspirin seen costing pensions $100 billion as lifespans increase ☂︎ Nov 13, 2022 #23 Tarmander Tarmander Member JoinedApr 30, 2015 Messages3,751 UG's mystique of enlightenment was like a bomb going off in my head when I read it around 10 years ago. Totally snapped me out of all these gurus I was following. Seeking Enlightenment took on a whole new meaning to me. His writings were painful but freeing Nov 13, 2022 #24 schmolch Member JoinedSep 7, 2022 Messages38 Locationgermany Too bad they are all dead. Is there anyone comparable today? Nov 13, 2022 #25 Dean Member JoinedJan 28, 2013 Messages793 schmolch said: Too bad they are all dead. Is there anyone comparable today? I'll take a dead guru over a live one any day. The longer (dead) the better. Nov 13, 2022 #26 sunny Member JoinedNov 6, 2020 Messages776 Makrosky said: AFAIK nobody in thisnforum has ever discussed thymus gland supplementation. It would be very interesting to know its effects. Do they sell it? www.standardprocess.com Thymus PMG® Learn more about Thymus PMG® from Standard Process, a leader in whole food nutritional supplements. www.standardprocess.com Nov 13, 2022 #27 sunny Member JoinedNov 6, 2020 Messages776 Dean said: I'll take a dead guru over a live one any day. The longer (dead) the better. Yes, especially when they lived to a healthy old age. Health gurus giving advice who are still living on the abundance of youth make me laugh. Nov 14, 2022 #28 Makrosky Makrosky Member JoinedOct 5, 2014 Messages3,939 sunny said: Yes, especially when they lived to a healthy old age. Health gurus giving advice who are still living on the abundance of youth make me laugh. The thing is that nowadays to become a "guru" on any topic, you just have to pretend you are one. You setup a nice webpage, write content picked up from here and there, generate a community, give the fake impression you have followers, a big audience, etc. and the rest is a snowball effect. It mostly depends on your ability to sell yourself, generate a fake image, write obvieties or duplicated content, weird theories that pick up with collective mind and... fake it until you make it. Nov 14, 2022 #29 schmolch Member JoinedSep 7, 2022 Messages38 Locationgermany Dean said: I'll take a dead guru over a live one any day. The longer (dead) the better. Osho showing off his cars on twitter, Jiddu replying with an insightfull poem and U.G. insulting both of them. This would have been great. Nov 26, 2022 #30 justabarkingdog New Member JoinedDec 16, 2020 Messages2 UG Krishnamurti said: In short, he was a guy who was searching for "Spiritual Enlightenment" all of his life and on his 49 birthday some biological transformation happened. People claimed that he got enlightened but he forcefully rejected that term and said that what happened to him was some kind of biological alignment. He called that state of the body a "Natural state". Body free from the control of thought. He didn't offer any advice on how to "achieve" what he has achieve because he claimed that he was "lucky" and he doesn't know what happened. He often said that what happened has happened not because of his wants and desires but in spite of them. After that he talked about "physical glands" and not "spiritual chakras". In this little part of this lovely forum I'm sharing some of his thoughts, for no reason: Q: What track would that be? UG: It is all chemical. If, as they say, desires are hormones, then the whole ethical code and culture that we have created through centuries to control the behavior of human beings are false. So, desire cannot be false. Anything that is happening within the [human] organism cannot be false. Q: Are you saying that there will always be sexual desire even without thought? UG: There is no sex at all without thought. Thought is memory. These experts make fun of me when I say that the most important of all glands is the thymus gland. When I discussed this subject with some physiologists and doctors they made fun of me. Naturally so, because according to them, the gland is inactive. If it is activated through any external means, it would be an abnormal situation. But, you know, the thymus is the most important gland, and feelings operate there without the element of thought. Q: From the thymus...? UG: Yes, from the thymus. You see, medical technology has ignored that for a very long time. They considered any unusual condition of the gland to be an abnormality and tried to treat it. It is true that when you reach the adolescent age, it becomes inactive, and then your feelings are controlled by your ideas. Q: By culture rather than by natural biology.... UG: ...than by natural biology. Feeling, to me, is like this: if you trip, I don't actually trip along with you; but the whole of my being is involved in that `tripping over'. That is the kind of feeling that I am talking about; all other feelings are emotions and thoughts. The distinction between feeling (not in the sense that I mentioned just now) and thought is not really something .... Q: It is just artificial. UG: It is very artificial. It is cultural. "The heart is more important than the head" and all such nonsense are absolute poppycock. When once this [U.G.'s] kind of disturbance takes place in the hormonal balance of the human body through this catastrophe, through this calamity, through whatever you want to call it, not only is the thymus activated but also all other glands such as the pineal and the pituitary are activated. People ask me, "Why don't you submit yourself to medical testing to validate all these claims?" I tell them that I am not selling these claims. What I have against medical technology is that you want to understand the functioning of these things with a motive. When once you have some idea of how these glands function, how the activation of these things will help mankind, you are not going to use it for the benefit of mankind. Q: And that is the reason why you are not interested in.... UG: ...not interested in studying all that. If you don't accept what I am saying, it is just fine with me. If some top physician wants to reject what I say, that fellow will say that I am talking rubbish. But now volumes have been written in America on the subject of the thymus gland. I am not claiming any special knowledge of these things. What I am trying to say is that the feelings felt at the thymus are quite different from the feelings induced by thoughts. ALSO: UG: "When I talk of 'feeling', I do not mean the same thing that you do. Actually, feeling is a physical response, a thud in the thymus. The thymus, one of the endocrine glands, is located under the breast bone. The doctors tell us that it is active through childhood until puberty and then becomes dormant. When you come into your natural state, this gland is re-activated. Sensations are felt there; you don't translate them as 'good' or 'bad'; they are just a thud. If there is a movement outside of you -- a clock pendulum swinging, or a bird flying across your field of vision -- that movement is also felt in the thymus. The whole of your being is that movement or vibrates with that sound; there is no separation. This does not mean that you identify yourself with that bird or whatever -- "I am that flying bird." There is no 'you' there, nor is there any object. What causes that sensation, you don't know. You do not even know that it is a sensation. 'Affection' (this is not my interpretation of the word) means that you are affected by everything, not that some emotion flows from you towards something. The natural state is a state of great sensitivity -- but this is a physical sensitivity of the senses, not some kind of emotional compassion or tenderness for others. There is compassion only in the sense that there are no 'others' for me, and so there is no separation" I forget about him, but I stumble around him every now and then. He's influential to me, to say the least. "I'm just a barking dog." Prev 1 2 You must log in or register to reply here. New posts LifeGivingStore.com "Delivering Energy to Your Life!" 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